protomate
Member
If you already read this, or might of responded, please disregard. I think this may be a more appropriate area for feedback and inspiration.
I am fascinated with the Hiller Flying Platform. I am too scared to go 1000's of feet up, and would just like to stay within 5-10ft of earth to start. Also, with a machine like that, I can play with it wherever I go, and also drive it around most areas from my house (lots of wide open space).
I am not sure this is the ideal forum for this project, but I have been steered here from numerous searches on the project. It may be redundant, as I may ask for help somewhere else on the forum, but I will lay out where I am at right here. Please don't be mad if I ask elsewhere as well. Here is what I have found so far:
Personal Flying Platforms Produced To Date:
1) 3 Hiller machines. 5-8ft coaxial props
2) Hummingbird platform
3) "The Winged Self" by Ben Blakebrough
I would love to buy/obtain plans/prints for comparison for any of these. Can't find them anywhere! Please help direct me to specifics. At this point I am thinking:
1) (2) 5ft props 2 blade running coaxial in a ducted fan arrangement. Not sure what pitch, speed or the space between them that will work well? Where to buy or to build? Not afraid of making from wood as I assume the Hiller ones were, but would like to decrease mass. I am not familiar with carbon fiber at this point. Any ideas?
2) (2) Kawasaki 440cc 2cycle air cooled engines-Perhaps dual custom exhausts for greater efficiency and weight savings. Issue becomes it makes transmission complicated because they both would run clockwise. Would also run redundant belts, and rachet drives in case one fails during flight.
Need to instigate other options. Seems original Hiller design used (2) Nelson H-59 engines 44hp@4000rpm. Seems first Hummingbird used (4) Hirth F33-15A engines 28hp.
I would love to use "certified" aircraft engines, but not sure if budget can handle it at this time. At this point in time, my intention is to go no high than I could fall with a helmet on. Maybe in the future high altitude runs would be attempted, but not until safety systems are tried and confirmed.
Any ideas to source engines? Ones that can be easily configured to run CW or CCW? I would love to use 4 cycle units. Also have to look at maintenance cost. I think from what I read they need to be rebuilt every 100hrs? Seem correct?
3) Frame: Tubing to be high grade steel if possible. I don't really care for aluminum due to its cyclic fatigue properties, but I have to do the design math on this one. All welded joints to be tethered in case of joint failure. Ducted fan shall be tubing, foam covered, then coated with fiberglass, kevlar, and carbon fiber. I wish this unit to be capable of water landings, so the foam can only help.
4)Safety Thoughts(please, please give me direction here as I am sure I didn't consider everything):
a) redundant drive belts
b) redundant motor ignition systems
c) entire blade area will not permit adult sized body parts near them, nor trees, shrubs, large rocks, leaves, animals, parts of the vehicle from a crash
d) altimeter, GPS device to measure speed and route(may just use my Iphone for that) Got an App for that! : )
e) Energy absorbtion system to act from height of 10ft, math to be determined. Need to find figures on how many G's a normal human can handle through there spine. Any direction to such studies?
f) Marker lights for twilight runs. Is their an accepted standard for this like for marine vehicles (red and green)?
g) Horizontal impact absorbtion system. Able to survive a direct hit from 10ft in case this things goes off balance, or if a tree, house, or other non movable thing is hit
h) Fuel system: Max 5gal(ultralight rule correct?) Emergency cutoffs. Crash proofs fuel stores. Safety delivery system.
i) All electrical wiring to satisfy DOT and/or FAA regulations. Redundancy wherever possible. I learned long ago from making CNC systems about vibration and bending duty wire.
g) (2) fire extinguishers, first aid kit, flare gun
h) signalling horn should I become tangled of in a traffic jam, or want to alert others of my intentions
I) self engaging redundant fuel pumps in case
J) Helmet! Any ideas on a good source of resonably priced units for avaition?
k) Parachute that launches by its own power? Not needed at this point, but in attempts at higher altitudes. Any good direction on these guys and gals? I have seen these co2 driven ones I think. Need to budget the weight into design
l) batteries, non spillable type. Fire protected. Redundant task
m) Lighting system of some sort. Possibly white LEDs
n) engine status panel
o) fuel gauges
p) possibly fuel pressure status-cost/weight dependent
q) Propeller drive bearings....Is their a rating system, pm schedule for these?
r) belt pm schedule...Std hrs for this?
s) engine hour meters
t) crash deforming driving pod
u) redundant throttle system. Not too trusting of such linkages based on past motorcycles, jet skis, and atv experiences
Thoughts, Ideas, and Questions for my build
Please,please share you thoughts and experiences):
1) system to maintain a commanded altitude, manually override able of course
2) Horizontal propulsion system, as I dont expect by leaning to go over 20mph. Read of some machines having the capacity to go 60mph. Seems a bit scarry at 10ft, but to be considered in design
3) gyro to maintain heading, overidable of course. Have seen such a system on RC helicopters, could probably work here
4) Parachute for entire machine, like the ones for tanks in air drops
5) Using several ducted fans around the periphery for lift, even if it is less efficient. This rig is not so high on creature comforts, as you have to stand while operating. For future designs, I could see 2 passagers or more, however instead of end up with a clumsy 20ft diameter craft, I would much prefer to have an elongated craft with a seat or two
6) GPS auto pilot as the RC UAV do. I have had a long look a Guai craft. Would be nice to be able to tell the machine to go pick up its passengers. Don't see why it can't be done as these RC machines can.
7) Sensors to detect path obstructions, potentially feeding back to auto pilot planner
8) Transmitting cameras like the UAV's have
9) Electric drive system. I know it seems crazy, but if you look at the power to weight ratio's of the RC brushless motors w/ controls and batteries, it can certainly be done. Have not yet found a cost effective battery source. The Lipo batteries I use for a few of my RC copters are called 1s. They are 3.7v and 130mah. Tiny and very powerful. I am almost certain that with enough to drive a 70-80kw is would be awsome, but the flight time very limited as the power density still is not as high as gasoline.
10) Emergency radio. I know the max fuel capacity is 5gal for ultralights, but that can get me far enough out their to justify the radio. Also, cell phones can not be trusted everywhere round here. If I crash, and unable to walk, need to call for help. I figure my range to be around 30-60 miles on the fuel.
11) Pulsejet, or similar drive?
I have no experience with them, but I understand them to be ridiculously loud. Even the videos on Youtube hurt my ears, but can these be used to lift such a platform? I have seen 100lb thrust plans on the internet. Could I use 4 or 5 of these to lift a future craft? Can I design a system of noise cancellation? Can they be suppressed? I am somewhat familier with the noise cancelling technologies for automobiles and jet aircraft. I am pretty sure with time and money to driver at least would not have to deal with the noise.
12) Thrust fan noise suppression system. Can the principles of multi order band with enclosures somehow be applied? Can some sort of wacky multi pitched "outside the box" tech be developed to drive such a machine?
I think that is enough about my project for now, as we just met! I welcome any feedback, direction(especially to blueprints of the previous machines), experience, lessons learned, things I haven't thought about that I should? I knew I should of paid better attention in fluid dynamics class
Thanks you everyone! Glad to be here,
Sincerly,
Ben
I am fascinated with the Hiller Flying Platform. I am too scared to go 1000's of feet up, and would just like to stay within 5-10ft of earth to start. Also, with a machine like that, I can play with it wherever I go, and also drive it around most areas from my house (lots of wide open space).
I am not sure this is the ideal forum for this project, but I have been steered here from numerous searches on the project. It may be redundant, as I may ask for help somewhere else on the forum, but I will lay out where I am at right here. Please don't be mad if I ask elsewhere as well. Here is what I have found so far:
Personal Flying Platforms Produced To Date:
1) 3 Hiller machines. 5-8ft coaxial props
2) Hummingbird platform
3) "The Winged Self" by Ben Blakebrough
I would love to buy/obtain plans/prints for comparison for any of these. Can't find them anywhere! Please help direct me to specifics. At this point I am thinking:
1) (2) 5ft props 2 blade running coaxial in a ducted fan arrangement. Not sure what pitch, speed or the space between them that will work well? Where to buy or to build? Not afraid of making from wood as I assume the Hiller ones were, but would like to decrease mass. I am not familiar with carbon fiber at this point. Any ideas?
2) (2) Kawasaki 440cc 2cycle air cooled engines-Perhaps dual custom exhausts for greater efficiency and weight savings. Issue becomes it makes transmission complicated because they both would run clockwise. Would also run redundant belts, and rachet drives in case one fails during flight.
Need to instigate other options. Seems original Hiller design used (2) Nelson H-59 engines 44hp@4000rpm. Seems first Hummingbird used (4) Hirth F33-15A engines 28hp.
I would love to use "certified" aircraft engines, but not sure if budget can handle it at this time. At this point in time, my intention is to go no high than I could fall with a helmet on. Maybe in the future high altitude runs would be attempted, but not until safety systems are tried and confirmed.
Any ideas to source engines? Ones that can be easily configured to run CW or CCW? I would love to use 4 cycle units. Also have to look at maintenance cost. I think from what I read they need to be rebuilt every 100hrs? Seem correct?
3) Frame: Tubing to be high grade steel if possible. I don't really care for aluminum due to its cyclic fatigue properties, but I have to do the design math on this one. All welded joints to be tethered in case of joint failure. Ducted fan shall be tubing, foam covered, then coated with fiberglass, kevlar, and carbon fiber. I wish this unit to be capable of water landings, so the foam can only help.
4)Safety Thoughts(please, please give me direction here as I am sure I didn't consider everything):
a) redundant drive belts
b) redundant motor ignition systems
c) entire blade area will not permit adult sized body parts near them, nor trees, shrubs, large rocks, leaves, animals, parts of the vehicle from a crash
d) altimeter, GPS device to measure speed and route(may just use my Iphone for that) Got an App for that! : )
e) Energy absorbtion system to act from height of 10ft, math to be determined. Need to find figures on how many G's a normal human can handle through there spine. Any direction to such studies?
f) Marker lights for twilight runs. Is their an accepted standard for this like for marine vehicles (red and green)?
g) Horizontal impact absorbtion system. Able to survive a direct hit from 10ft in case this things goes off balance, or if a tree, house, or other non movable thing is hit
h) Fuel system: Max 5gal(ultralight rule correct?) Emergency cutoffs. Crash proofs fuel stores. Safety delivery system.
i) All electrical wiring to satisfy DOT and/or FAA regulations. Redundancy wherever possible. I learned long ago from making CNC systems about vibration and bending duty wire.
g) (2) fire extinguishers, first aid kit, flare gun
h) signalling horn should I become tangled of in a traffic jam, or want to alert others of my intentions
I) self engaging redundant fuel pumps in case
J) Helmet! Any ideas on a good source of resonably priced units for avaition?
k) Parachute that launches by its own power? Not needed at this point, but in attempts at higher altitudes. Any good direction on these guys and gals? I have seen these co2 driven ones I think. Need to budget the weight into design
l) batteries, non spillable type. Fire protected. Redundant task
m) Lighting system of some sort. Possibly white LEDs
n) engine status panel
o) fuel gauges
p) possibly fuel pressure status-cost/weight dependent
q) Propeller drive bearings....Is their a rating system, pm schedule for these?
r) belt pm schedule...Std hrs for this?
s) engine hour meters
t) crash deforming driving pod
u) redundant throttle system. Not too trusting of such linkages based on past motorcycles, jet skis, and atv experiences
Thoughts, Ideas, and Questions for my build
Please,please share you thoughts and experiences):1) system to maintain a commanded altitude, manually override able of course
2) Horizontal propulsion system, as I dont expect by leaning to go over 20mph. Read of some machines having the capacity to go 60mph. Seems a bit scarry at 10ft, but to be considered in design
3) gyro to maintain heading, overidable of course. Have seen such a system on RC helicopters, could probably work here
4) Parachute for entire machine, like the ones for tanks in air drops
5) Using several ducted fans around the periphery for lift, even if it is less efficient. This rig is not so high on creature comforts, as you have to stand while operating. For future designs, I could see 2 passagers or more, however instead of end up with a clumsy 20ft diameter craft, I would much prefer to have an elongated craft with a seat or two
6) GPS auto pilot as the RC UAV do. I have had a long look a Guai craft. Would be nice to be able to tell the machine to go pick up its passengers. Don't see why it can't be done as these RC machines can.
7) Sensors to detect path obstructions, potentially feeding back to auto pilot planner
8) Transmitting cameras like the UAV's have
9) Electric drive system. I know it seems crazy, but if you look at the power to weight ratio's of the RC brushless motors w/ controls and batteries, it can certainly be done. Have not yet found a cost effective battery source. The Lipo batteries I use for a few of my RC copters are called 1s. They are 3.7v and 130mah. Tiny and very powerful. I am almost certain that with enough to drive a 70-80kw is would be awsome, but the flight time very limited as the power density still is not as high as gasoline.
10) Emergency radio. I know the max fuel capacity is 5gal for ultralights, but that can get me far enough out their to justify the radio. Also, cell phones can not be trusted everywhere round here. If I crash, and unable to walk, need to call for help. I figure my range to be around 30-60 miles on the fuel.
11) Pulsejet, or similar drive?
I have no experience with them, but I understand them to be ridiculously loud. Even the videos on Youtube hurt my ears, but can these be used to lift such a platform? I have seen 100lb thrust plans on the internet. Could I use 4 or 5 of these to lift a future craft? Can I design a system of noise cancellation? Can they be suppressed? I am somewhat familier with the noise cancelling technologies for automobiles and jet aircraft. I am pretty sure with time and money to driver at least would not have to deal with the noise.
12) Thrust fan noise suppression system. Can the principles of multi order band with enclosures somehow be applied? Can some sort of wacky multi pitched "outside the box" tech be developed to drive such a machine?
I think that is enough about my project for now, as we just met! I welcome any feedback, direction(especially to blueprints of the previous machines), experience, lessons learned, things I haven't thought about that I should? I knew I should of paid better attention in fluid dynamics class
Thanks you everyone! Glad to be here,
Sincerly,
Ben
