Advice, please. Considering a Sonerai II.

[Vince P]

Hello All!
My name is Vince.
I am a pilot and A&P.
I live in the high desert of Sierra Vista, AZ.

I am looking at buying a Sonerai II.
I am concerned about aircraft performance relative to a turf runway at about 4800' MSL and high density altitude.

Can I expect something good out of a larger VW engine (2400cc ?) or am I looking at the wrong aircraft?

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thank you,
Vince

 

[soneraifred]

Hi Vince,
I’m flatlander at about 800’ msl in Wisconsin. I flew my Sonerai IIL with both an 1850 and a 2180 for 34 years. With just me on board (I only flew it solo), it was never a stellar climber, particularly when it was hot (the density altitude here never gets much over 2500’). It flew off the grass just fine. Given that the airplane has only 84 square feet of wing area, and maybe 75 hp on a good day, I’d be concerned about the performance at your altitude on a warm day. A 2400cc engine will only give you maybe 85 hp, so the performance increase over a 2180 will not be very large. There hopefully are others who have real life experience with similar airplanes at your altitude who can provide their experiences as well.
Fred

 

[Marc W]

It will depend on what weight you fly at. I flew a Thatcher CX4 out of a 5,200' MSL airport with a 2180 cc VW. Normal gross weight was 830 lbs with 78 sq ft of wing area. I normally only fly in the morning before it heats up and the thermals develop and the wind picks up(I don't enjoy getting beat up) so I never took off in density altitudes above 8,000' or so. I felt it performed as well as most airplanes do at this altitude.

A friend here flies a Sonex with the 2180 Aerovee. It works fine in the summer when he flies solo.

I talked to a pilot at Mogollon Airpark, AZ which is about 7000' msl. He flew a Thatcher CX4 with a 2400cc VW and he said it did fine.

So I think a Sonerai 2 flown at a light weight will do fine at your altitude. If you weight it down with two people it will be a poor performer in the summer.

Edit: There used to be a pilot here who flew a KR2 with a VW. He was a skinny old man so he flew light. He was very proud of its performance.

 

[Vince P]

Hi Vince,
I’m flatlander at about 800’ msl in Wisconsin. I flew my Sonerai IIL with both an 1850 and a 2180 for 34 years. With just me on board (I only flew it solo), it was never a stellar climber, particularly when it was hot (the density altitude here never gets much over 2500’). It flew off the grass just fine. Given that the airplane has only 84 square feet of wing area, and maybe 75 hp on a good day, I’d be concerned about the performance at your altitude on a warm day. A 2400cc engine will only give you maybe 85 hp, so the performance increase over a 2180 will not be very large. There hopefully are others who have real life experience with similar airplanes at your altitude who can provide their experiences as well.
Fred

Thank You Fred!
Invaluable advice!

 

[Vince P]

It will depend on what weight you fly at. I flew a Thatcher CX4 out of a 5,200' MSL airport with a 2180 cc VW. Normal gross weight was 830 lbs with 78 sq ft of wing area. I normally only fly in the morning before it heats up and the thermals develop and the wind picks up(I don't enjoy getting beat up) so I never took off in density altitudes above 8,000' or so. I felt it performed as well as most airplanes do at this altitude.

A friend here flies a Sonex with the 2180 Aerovee. It works fine in the summer when he flies solo.

I talked to a pilot at Mogollon Airpark, AZ which is about 7000' msl. He flew a Thatcher CX4 with a 2400cc VW and he said it did fine.

So I think a Sonerai 2 flown at a light weight will do fine at your altitude. If you weight it down with two people it will be a poor performer in the summer.

Edit: There used to be a pilot here who flew a KR2 with a VW. He was a skinny old man so he flew light. He was very proud of its performance.

Thank You Marc!
More invaluable, empirically tested advice!
I weigh about 195#.

 

[Chucker]

Hi Vince,

I flew a Sonerai II out of Prescott (5,000MSL) behind a Revmaster 2100D. Dry weight was 590#. I flew it dual in the winter and solo in the Summer. My Summer rate of climb was over 500fpm at 80-90mph.

 

[Victor Bravo]

I am looking at buying a Sonerai II.

Any help would be much appreciated!

I have ZERO Sonerai experience, but I do feel qualified to ask this question:

What type of flying are you wanting to do at your location? Off-road STOL bush flying and chasing Gila Monsters around in the sagebrush..... cross country between Sierra Vista and Dallas up in the flight levels.... taking Young Eagle flights on 110 degree days.... $100 hamburgers with a passenger no further away than Willcox... ?????

 

[Chucker]

I weigh 145#. My passenger weighed 190#. We climbed at 500 FPM. Conditions were dry and cold... under 50 degrees.

 

[Vince P]

Hi Vince,

I flew a Sonerai II out of Prescott (5,000MSL) behind a Revmaster 2100D. Dry weight was 590#. I flew it dual in the winter and solo in the Summer. My Summer rate of climb was over 500fpm at 80-90mph.

Thank You Chucker!
I drove by Love Field in Prescott a few hours ago.
I was based there a few years back.
Nice airport.
I am back home in Sierra Vista now.
Your comments are helpful!
Vince

 

[Vince P]

I have ZERO Sonerai experience, but I do feel qualified to ask this question:

What type of flying are you wanting to do at your location? Off-road STOL bush flying and chasing Gila Monsters around in the sagebrush..... cross country between Sierra Vista and Dallas up in the flight levels.... taking Young Eagle flights on 110 degree days.... $100 hamburgers with a passenger no further away than Willcox... ?????

Hello Victor Bravo!
I think that it is fair to say that the Flight Levels are out of the question, HaHa!
Casual local flights and the occasional cross country are what I have in mind.
And landing for a bite to eat or see fellow aviators .
You apparently have some familiarity with our local area, here.
I will be flying off of a turf (read: dirt) runway.
If you have another aircraft to suggest or direct me to, I am open.
Thanks!
Vince

 

[fly2kads]

Viking SF-2A Cygnet would seem to fit the bill, here.

 

[Vince P]

Viking SF-2A Cygnet would seem to fit the bill, here.

Thank you!

 

[dwalker]

Are you considering Matts old black Sonerai for sale in Sparks?

 

[mcrae0104]

Have you considered this?

 

[dwalker]

Have you considered this?
View attachment 152301

I am

 

[Vince P]

Are you considering Matts old black Sonerai for sale in Sparks?

dwalker, I am not familiar with a Sonerai for sale in Sparks. Could you direct me to Matt? Thank you!

 

[Vince P]

Have you considered this?
View attachment 152301

Is that a turbo converted to a turbine engine?

 

[dwalker]

dwalker, I am not familiar with a Sonerai for sale in Sparks. Could you direct me to Matt? Thank you!

It's on Facebook in the Sonerai group, excellent price too, I'm very tempted by it. If you search YouTube for sonerai project you will find Matt's original build, its a black SII. The guy selling it bought it from the for who bought it from Matt.

 

[dwalker]

Is that a turbo converted to a turbine engine?

That's a turbocharger for the VW motor, which gives you the power you will be missing when it's hot. I'm very likely to turbo my 2276 at some point.

 

[soneraifred]

Several years ago, Jeremy Monnett suggested that I install the turbocharged Aeroconversion’s 2180 on my IIL. I asked him where I should mount the turbo since there is barely enough room to install a normally-aspirated VW in the Sonerai cowling. I did not get an answer. Besides, the last thing a Sonerai II needs is more weight ahead of the firewall. And then there’s the whole issue of dissipating all of the heat.